Would you mind if you needed to download and install Xvid

[jfcwilson]

Let's say you had just completed installing a new AM game, and you clicked finish, then a box pops up with a web link, telling you to click on it to download and install the Xvid video codecs, integral to running the game. Would you, a: Throw the game out the window and send a threatening e-mail to tech support, or b: Shrug, click the link, install xvid, and then play the game.

Thanks,
James

[Mystery]

My opinion:
I think for the average player, it would make a big difference if they had this info before they download the game. So where the link to the game is, must be an info about the necessity to download the codec, and also an explanation why.
If it pops up after installation without a prior info and explanation, this might scare off players, or even make them angry.

[mercedes]

I think for the average player, it would make a big difference if they had this info before I download the game. So where the link to the game is, must be an info about the necessity to download the codec, and also an explanation why.
If it pops up after installation without a prior info and explanation, this might scare off players, or even make them angry.

Ditto~

Ppl that aren't familiar with certain aspects of their computer..For instance my mother..[She just bought one--its been fun--teaching her everything on the internet.. ] wouldn't know what to do with that either..

Also, most are scared off of spam..or thinking it might be..This is assuming you only put a link there or something in the game..
If u wait to say something till then...ya, I fear ppl may get angry..

I'm sure if u explain it..they'll play it for sure.. I would..!~

But like I said in pm..not crazy about the owner/GPL thing~
I'm gonna see if I can't find u another codec..--If u want..

[Lyberodoggy]

My suggestion: Two installations. One smaller, one bigger, the first containing only the game, while the second containing both the game and the xvid installation. That way, you can have them both for download, so that users who already have the codecs don't have to re-download/re-install them

[Mystery]

Doggy, I think he asks because it seems that you are not allowed to distribute XVid with a commercial game

[CBSection31]

I looked into this loophole myself. All info below is in regard to the US only.

It IS illegal to distribute Xvid with a commercial game...but it's ALSO illegal to distribute Xvid-encoded videos with a commercial game with the intent of having those files played back in the game, even if Xvid itself is not included in the game. I had my lawyer check this specifically, so you should be careful if you decide to do this.

[Mystery]

Well, the XVid people have the opinion that XVid can be used to encode videos in commercial games, but that you are not allowed to redistribute the XVid coded.
See their reply here:
http://www.adventuremaker.com/phpBB2/vi ... php?t=4931

This all is really confusing, and it seems that nobody knows for sure

[mercedes]

You are allowed to Distribute XVID with either--Commercial or NON-Commercial You can put it as a separate installer in your game..in the root folder

But--If you distribute it, you have to distribute it as a Whole--
XVID falls under the General Public License
Once u put your package as a whole--you can distribute it, but now your game falls under GPL..as well.

Meaning your game will have to be made Open Source..for public..It will be treated the same way as XVID is..

However you are allowed to make/create videos with XVId and distribute and it not fall under GPL..Just you can't put it in with your game without distributing as a whole--both will fall under GPL

Peace

[Mystery]

Commercial and GPL contradicts each other.
If you need to make your game open source and free, then you can't sell it
So distribution of XVid is only possible with freeware games.

[mercedes]

No, you can still charge a price for it, The GPL free terms means its free to distribute ''freely'', not free of charge..

The next user who has source code, still can't claim it as its own software. Your software is still protected. They can alter and distribute the software they make, but they have to claim it's not the original.

So in essence anyone who wants the original, will have to pay the price you state to buy it.
They cannot redistribute your original, its still copyrighted. That's not to say ppl don't do it anyways though..which is why I wouldn't choose to distribute it..I think it's safer just to have others download it as a separate entity.

[Mystery]

Okay I see.
But if you want to sell your games and make money with them, this is not really a good option, because:
However, if someone pays your fee and gets a copy, the GPL gives them the freedom to release it to the public, with or without a fee.

[CBSection31]

You are definitely NOT able to distribute Xvid itself OR Xvid encoded videos with a commercial game in the United States.

The reason for this has nothing to do with the Xvid GPL license. The problem relates to the fact that Xvid uses MPEG-4 technology, which is a proprietary technology owned by MPEG LA.

As such, if you wish to distribute any video encoded with MPEG-4 techology in the United States (this includes DivX, too), you must purchase a license from mpegla.com.

I spent a lot of time, research, and money into investigating the legality of this, so you can trust this information.

Below is the reply to an e-mail conversation my lawyer had with MPEG LA regarding this issue. I hope it helps!

----------

Dear ------:

Thank you for your inquiry and interest in MPEG LA. We are pleased to be in touch with you and I will be glad to assist you with questions regarding MPEG-4 and our Visual License.

As you mentioned, the Xvid codec (and similarly, DivX) utilizes the MPEG-4 Visual (Part 2) Standard. Therefore, a product/service incorporating the Xvid or DivX codec makes use of the MPEG-4 Visual (Part 2) Standard, and as a result, NEEDS to be licensed under the essential patents in our MPEG-4 Visual License. Similarly, content encoded using the Xvid codec is encode using the MPEG-4 Visual (Part 2) Standard, and will benefit from coverage under our MPEG-4 Visual License.

More specifically, the MPEG-4 Visual License is effectively divided into two halves: (i) sublicenses granting the right to "make and sell" MPEG-4 Visual Products and (ii) sublicenses granting the right to "use" such MPEG-4 Visual Products to provide MPEG-4 Video to end users for remuneration.

When MPEG-4 Visual video content is provided for remuneration (for example, on a Subscription or Title-by-Title basis), the provider of such MPEG-4 Visual video content will benefit from coverage under the MPEG-4 Visual License and is responsible for paying applicable royalties for the use of the MPEG-4 Video Encoders and MPEG-4 Video Decoders in connection with the remunerated content.

In the case where an end user pays for MPEG-4 Visual video content on a Title-by-Title basis, the royalty is the lower of 2% of the price paid to the Licensee or $0.02 per title for video greater than 12 minutes. However, there is no royalty for a specific Title of 12 minutes or less.

From your description, it appears that your client's computer game product would include MPEG-4 Visual video content and would be distributed on a Title-by-Title basis. Therefore, you would benefit from coverage under the MPEG-4 Visual License.

The process to become a Licensee is very straightforward and normally takes only a few days. All that is required is to simply fill in the necessary information on the MPEG-4 Visual License agreement and return the signed document for execution by MPEG LA. After the License is executed by MPEG LA, we will then return a .pdf copy of the fully executed License to your for your files. Following that, our Royalty Services Department will communicate with you directly to provide detailed royalty reporting and payment instructions. Running royalties for products going forward are paid on a semi-annual schedule (i.e., twice per year) and Back Royalties for any products prior to concluding the Licenses are paid within 30 days of signature.

If you will please provide me with your physical mailing address, I will send you (via FedEx) an execution copy of the MPEG-4 Visual License along with some additional background information on MPEG LA.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Best regards,

Michael J. Zurat
Licensing Associate
MPEG LA
5425 Wisconsin Avenue, Suite 801
Chevy Chase, MD 20815 U.S.A.
+1 301 986 6660 Phone
+1 301 986 8575 Fax
mzurat@mpegla.com

[jfcwilson]

Thanks, all of you. Anyone know of a codec that isen't MPEG-4?

[CBSection31]

I spent months searching for one, and finally found one, thanks to a post on another messageboard: the Midivid codec. I now use it for all of my games.

You can grab it here: http://www.midivid.com/

Two things to note:

- only the Midivid codec is freeware; the MV2, MV3, and MV4 codecs are NOT.

- the developer no longer supports this codec, to my knowledge; I tried contacting him multiple times at multiple addresses but never received a response, so use at your own risk!

[jfcwilson]

I don't like that it's based on cinepak..that's a really bad codec. And I didn't see anywhere whether I can distirbute it or not.
I'm now going for Ogg Theora, but I don't know if it runs on AM or not. I'm pretty sure it's been done.

[CBSection31]

Theora is definitely a better choice than Midivid, as it generates a better image and a lower file size. It is, however, harder to set up with AM. If you figure out how to, please let me know!

Regarding Midivid: I've used this extensively, and the image quality is good. If you render the video at 100% quality, then the image is better than what Xvid is capable of. The file size is a bit larger, though.

I render my videos at 90% quality, and they are comparable to Xvid, both in visuals and file size.

Note that my games use 3D cgi; for 2D animation or live actors, I cannot vouch for the quality of the codec.

As to where it says it's free: Click on the "Codec" link on the main site and scroll down. At the bottom it says it is freeware.

[jfcwilson]

It does say it's freeware, but it doesen't say I can distribute it commercialy.
Regarding Ogg Theora, I understand that Ogg is a container format, while Theora is a compression codec. I think that if I can get theora to compress videos inside an AVI file, it could work with AM. Do you know of any way to do this?
I've tried Ogg video tools and ffmpeg2theora. They don't appear to provide this option. But as far as my (rather limited) knowledge goes, I think it should be possible.

[CBSection31]

The codec has been used in commercial applications before. I'll have to sift through my games to find where, though. It used to require a license, but since the creator came out with the MV2/3/4 codecs, he made it free for commercial use.

But in any case, regarding Theora, your reasoning makes sense. I'm afraid I don't know how to compress a Theora video inside an AVI container, though. :\

[3dgamer]

This is a good thread. Thanks for posting it jfcwilson. Also, thanks for your info on XVID, CBSection31. I would like to know what you all find re: Theora and other true open source non-royalty formats because I am interested in this topic as well.

Thanks.

----------[EDIT]--------------

Okay, I was doing some research while waiting for feedback to another question I had and found what I think (and hope) is heartwarming news for some of us who know won't sell in the volume range of large companies but would like to sell some games.

Please see my thread at the link below for more information regarding MP3 and MPEG licensing: http://www.adventuremaker.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=25504#25504

Well, hope that helps some.

Cya